Difference between revisions of "Talk:Turkish and Azerbaijani"

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(New page: I think we will need new definitions for the five mentioned cases of turkish nouns tocase or tcase for short fromcase or fcase for short incase or icase for short thatcase or thcase ...)
 
 
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{{TOCD}}
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I think we will need new definitions for the five mentioned cases of turkish nouns
  
   
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== Comparative Resources ==
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tocase or tcase for short
  
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fromcase or fcase for short
 
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A Comparison of Modern Azeri With
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incase or icase for short
  
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By Kurtulush Oztopchu – Berkeley/UCLA
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thatcase or thcase for short
  
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purecase or pcase for short
  
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http://azer.com/aiweb/categories/magazine/13_folder/13_articles/kurtulush_azeri_turkish_13.pdf
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Dictionary of the Turkic Languages:
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http://books.google.com/books?id=2f3yxBxf1TYC&pg=PA1&dq=turkic+dictionary&ei=u6bGRobjCI_g6wKSs-XfDw&sig=KmHmuF4VK5oc30rFxkBOHyuY0eg
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http://tdk.org.tr/lehceler/
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Example for Noun cases:
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http://www.ingilish.com/turkishnouncase.htm
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The posession phrase part of this page also has some extra information with genitive and comitative forms
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http://www.ingilish.com/turkishpasttense.htm
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Comitative Case
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The comitative case also should be modelled. Because it also goes inflected with the noun.--[[User:Msalperen|Msalperen]] 10:16, 18 August 2007 (BST)
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http://www.turkishlanguage.co.uk/fiilkipi.htm
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http://www.practicalturkish.com/turkish-verb--literature.html
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Azeri Vowel and Consonant Harmony: http://home.unilang.org/wiki3/index.php/Azeri_vowel_and_consonant_harmony
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== Harmonization Issue ==
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We can define <noun-2> which ends with one kind of vowel (let's say e) and define new kinds of affixes (<sg2-2> for example) that only follows the second kind of nouns. would it be a solution for harmonization? There're are not so much type of vowels when it comes to harmonization. In order not to confuse noun2 with noun-2 as already seen we can use a dash (-) sign. Let's say bira is a type 1 noun and lar is the first form of plural maker. It's obvious to us that pl-1 will never follow noun-1 however, we can define noun-1 in the dictionary so:
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*biralarım = <noun-1><pl-1><sg1>
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*and ev is the second type
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*evlerim=<noun-2><pl-2><sg-2>
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*There are 8 vowels and only two kinds of plural makers in Turkish so it would be
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*for a,ı,o and u (so called tight vowels)
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*stems: bira, koro, kız, muz
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*biralarım = <noun-1><pl-1><p1> (my beers)
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*korolarım = <noun-1><pl-1><p1> (my choirs)
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*kızlarım = <noun-1><pl-1><p1> (my daughters)
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*muzlarım = <noun-1><pl-1><p1> (my bananas)
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for e,i,ö, and ü (so called "tin" vowels)
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*stems: ev, kedi, göz, düş
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*evlerim = <noun-2><pl-2><p-1>
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*kedilerim = <noun-2><pl-2><p-1>
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*gözlerim = <noun-2><pl-2><p-1>
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*düşlerim = <noun-2><pl-2><p-1>
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if the last vowel of the stem is a it will always be type 1 vowel, and the following affixes will always be type 1 and the same logic for the second type of nouns. Just in the xml file, we will define the word as noun-1 or noun-2 not only single identifier "<n>". I think this solution will require only a few more definitions or paradigms. --[[User:Msalperen|Msalperen]] 21:17, 18 August 2007 (BST)
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Okey... This won't suffice if <noun-1> corresponds to <noun-2> in second language??? confused.--[[User:Msalperen|Msalperen]] 22:18, 18 August 2007 (BST)
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== Clitics ==
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*YUM (Yumuşama)_NK: if the last 2 consonants at the and of the stem is nk, turn the last k into g
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Example: Renk (stem) + i = Rengi (Not Renki)
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Named entities do not have this effect.
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*YUM (Yumuşama): if the consonant at the and is p , or ç,t,k respectively and the starting letter of the affix is a vowel,make them b, c, d ,ğ
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Kitap + ı = (Kitabı), Güç + ü (harmonized i) = Gücü
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*DUS : While affixing, drop the last vowel, and connect the rest
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(nutuk with affix -a = nutka), ufuk=>ufuka=>ufka, alın=>alını=>alnı
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*TERS : Just reverse the harmonization, if the word ends with letter a, start the affix with e (or the reverse)
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-saat + a becomes saate (it should "saata" because of harmonization but make it reverse),
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-işgal + a = işgale ("saata" makes sense, but let's do it saate)
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This irregularity comes especially with Arabic or Persian words
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'''More About Clitics''':
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*http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a740968487~db=all~jumptype=rss
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*3nokta.wordpress.com/2007/03/19/ses-olaylari/ (currently unavailable)
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*http://www.egze.com/download/uploads/ses_olaylari.zip (virus tested, clear)
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*Efficient Find-and-Replace in Agglutinative Languages:
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The Case of Turkish
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www.hlst.sabanciuniv.edu/archive/patras.doc
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== Other Indicators ==
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YAL : The word (probably adj. or conj.) only used in stem form, does not take any kind of affixes
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GEN : Exception of present tense (will be explained later)

Latest revision as of 22:53, 30 March 2011

Comparative Resources[edit]

A Comparison of Modern Azeri With By Kurtulush Oztopchu – Berkeley/UCLA

http://azer.com/aiweb/categories/magazine/13_folder/13_articles/kurtulush_azeri_turkish_13.pdf

Dictionary of the Turkic Languages:

http://books.google.com/books?id=2f3yxBxf1TYC&pg=PA1&dq=turkic+dictionary&ei=u6bGRobjCI_g6wKSs-XfDw&sig=KmHmuF4VK5oc30rFxkBOHyuY0eg

http://tdk.org.tr/lehceler/

Example for Noun cases:

http://www.ingilish.com/turkishnouncase.htm

The posession phrase part of this page also has some extra information with genitive and comitative forms http://www.ingilish.com/turkishpasttense.htm

Comitative Case The comitative case also should be modelled. Because it also goes inflected with the noun.--Msalperen 10:16, 18 August 2007 (BST)

http://www.turkishlanguage.co.uk/fiilkipi.htm http://www.practicalturkish.com/turkish-verb--literature.html

Azeri Vowel and Consonant Harmony: http://home.unilang.org/wiki3/index.php/Azeri_vowel_and_consonant_harmony

Harmonization Issue[edit]

We can define <noun-2> which ends with one kind of vowel (let's say e) and define new kinds of affixes (<sg2-2> for example) that only follows the second kind of nouns. would it be a solution for harmonization? There're are not so much type of vowels when it comes to harmonization. In order not to confuse noun2 with noun-2 as already seen we can use a dash (-) sign. Let's say bira is a type 1 noun and lar is the first form of plural maker. It's obvious to us that pl-1 will never follow noun-1 however, we can define noun-1 in the dictionary so:

  • biralarım = <noun-1><pl-1><sg1>
  • and ev is the second type
  • evlerim=<noun-2><pl-2><sg-2>
  • There are 8 vowels and only two kinds of plural makers in Turkish so it would be
  • for a,ı,o and u (so called tight vowels)
  • stems: bira, koro, kız, muz
  • biralarım = <noun-1><pl-1><p1> (my beers)
  • korolarım = <noun-1><pl-1><p1> (my choirs)
  • kızlarım = <noun-1><pl-1><p1> (my daughters)
  • muzlarım = <noun-1><pl-1><p1> (my bananas)

for e,i,ö, and ü (so called "tin" vowels)

  • stems: ev, kedi, göz, düş
  • evlerim = <noun-2><pl-2><p-1>
  • kedilerim = <noun-2><pl-2><p-1>
  • gözlerim = <noun-2><pl-2><p-1>
  • düşlerim = <noun-2><pl-2><p-1>

if the last vowel of the stem is a it will always be type 1 vowel, and the following affixes will always be type 1 and the same logic for the second type of nouns. Just in the xml file, we will define the word as noun-1 or noun-2 not only single identifier "<n>". I think this solution will require only a few more definitions or paradigms. --Msalperen 21:17, 18 August 2007 (BST)

Okey... This won't suffice if <noun-1> corresponds to <noun-2> in second language??? confused.--Msalperen 22:18, 18 August 2007 (BST)


Clitics[edit]

  • YUM (Yumuşama)_NK: if the last 2 consonants at the and of the stem is nk, turn the last k into g

Example: Renk (stem) + i = Rengi (Not Renki) Named entities do not have this effect.

  • YUM (Yumuşama): if the consonant at the and is p , or ç,t,k respectively and the starting letter of the affix is a vowel,make them b, c, d ,ğ

Kitap + ı = (Kitabı), Güç + ü (harmonized i) = Gücü

  • DUS : While affixing, drop the last vowel, and connect the rest

(nutuk with affix -a = nutka), ufuk=>ufuka=>ufka, alın=>alını=>alnı

  • TERS : Just reverse the harmonization, if the word ends with letter a, start the affix with e (or the reverse)

-saat + a becomes saate (it should "saata" because of harmonization but make it reverse), -işgal + a = işgale ("saata" makes sense, but let's do it saate) This irregularity comes especially with Arabic or Persian words

More About Clitics:

  • 3nokta.wordpress.com/2007/03/19/ses-olaylari/ (currently unavailable)
  • Efficient Find-and-Replace in Agglutinative Languages:

The Case of Turkish www.hlst.sabanciuniv.edu/archive/patras.doc

Other Indicators[edit]

YAL : The word (probably adj. or conj.) only used in stem form, does not take any kind of affixes GEN : Exception of present tense (will be explained later)

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