Difference between revisions of "Talk:Turkic languages"

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{{TOCD}}

==Classification==

===Classification==


* attributive attr = things that act like adjectives
* attributive attr = things that act like adjectives
Line 11: Line 10:


* noun (default 'subst') + DECL-NOUN
* noun (default 'subst') + DECL-NOUN
*:noun->adj = n.attr + DECL-ADJ
*:noun->adj = n.attr + DECL-ADJ !! No <comp>arison levels though


*adj (default 'attr') + DECL-ADJ
*adj (default 'attr') + DECL-ADJ
Line 19: Line 18:
*: num->noun = num.subst + DECL-NOUN
*: num->noun = num.subst + DECL-NOUN


*pron (default 'subst') + DECL-NOUN
*prn (default 'subst') + DECL-NOUN


*det (default 'attr') + NO-DECL
*det (default 'attr') + NO-DECL


*v
*v
*: v->ger + DECL-NOUN
*: v->noun = v.ger + DECL-NOUN
*: v->prc + DECL-ADJ
*: v->adj = v.glp + DECL-ADJ
*: v->prc.adv + DECL-ADV
*: v->adv = v.prc + DECL-ADV

Types of non-finite verbal forms:

* Adverbial participle: {{tag|gnL}} (e.g. {{tag|gnc}} "Conditional adverbial participle")
* Verbal adjectives: {{tag|gpL}} (e.g. {{tag|gpi}} "Imperfect verbal adjective")
* Gerunds: {{tag|gerN}} (e.g. {{tag|ger1}} "Past/present gerund")
* Participles: {{tag|prcN}} (e.g. {{tag|prc1}} "Realis participle")


====What about 'cop' and 'pred'====
====What about 'cop' and 'pred'====
Line 43: Line 49:
* We lose the tag denoting the principle function of the stem
* We lose the tag denoting the principle function of the stem
* We can't tell the CG to choose the principal function
* We can't tell the CG to choose the principal function
* We can't tell the difference between `real' N/A ambiguity and
* We can't tell the difference between `real' N/A ambiguity and "derivation" ambiguity
derivation ambiguity


Arguments against just piling one tag ontop of another:
Arguments against just piling one tag ontop of another:
Line 76: Line 81:


şimde 'now' şimde<adv>
şimde 'now' şimde<adv>
şimdelerde 'nowadays'
şimdelerde 'nowadays' şimdelerde<adv>

: I think you want both of these as <adv>. Historically it's something like "şu emdi<n??>" and "şu emdilerde/emdi<n??><pl><loc>", but for our purposes this is irrelevant. —[[User:Firespeaker|Firespeaker]] 19:40, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
:: More to the point, this isn't any sort of productive process we're seeing here; my point is that it's an isolated ''productive-looking'' form because of its unique history. —[[User:Firespeaker|Firespeaker]] 19:41, 26 February 2012 (UTC)


====Имема существительные====
====Имема существительные====
Line 90: Line 98:
^Evlerimizdeymişler/Ev<n><pl><px1pl><loc>+i<cop><evid><p3><pl>$
^Evlerimizdeymişler/Ev<n><pl><px1pl><loc>+i<cop><evid><p3><pl>$
</pre>
</pre>


==Compound tenses==

Things to think about:

* analysis length:
** <code>^келген эмеспи/кел<v><iv><neg><past><p3><pl>+бы<qst>/кел<v><iv><neg><past><p3><sg>+бы<qst>/кел<vaux><neg><past><p3><pl>+бы<qst>/кел<vaux><neg><past><p3><sg>+бы<qst>$</code>, vs.
** <code>^келген/кел<v><iv><past>/кел<vaux><past>$ ^эмеспи/эмес<neg><p3><sg>+бы<qst>/эмес<neg><p3><pl>+бы<qst>$</code>
* tag/morpheme reordering should be done by transfer, such as Turkish->Chuvash negative imperative, Chuvash->Turkish possessives.
* what about different spacing, do you ever get >1 space, or nbsp or formatting between e.g. келген and эмеспи ? -- or anything that isn't a single ascii space ?

== Resources ==

Following is a mail to the Corpora list. Might be a good idea to have a 'Resources' page/section for Turkic languages, as it is done on language pages.

<pre>
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 19:54:04 +0200
From: "Christian Chiarcos" <christian.chiarcos@web.de>
Subject: Re: [Corpora-List] Turkic dictionaries
To: "corpora@uib.no" <corpora@uib.no>

Dear all,

I would like to thank everyone who responded to my request and who helped
me in personal conversation, in particular, Emily Bender, Jost Gippert,
Max Ionov, Irina Nevskaya, Monika Rind-Pawlowski, Vit Suchomel, Francis
Tyers, and Mardan Wushouer. Please find a summary, with URLs, brief
description and licensing information below (no particular order):


(A) Dictionaries/Wordlists in machine-readable formats

(A.1) Gilles Sérasset's DBnary
http://kaiko.getalp.org/about-dbnary/
machine-readable (RDF) dictionaries generated from Wiktionary, incl.
Turkish
CC-BY-SA

(A.2) Mardan Wushouer's wordlists
http://www.ai.soc.i.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~mardan/resource/Chinese_Uyghur_Bilingual_Dictionary_v1.zip
http://www.ai.soc.i.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~mardan/resource/Chinese_Kazakh_Bilingual_Dictionary_v1.zip
http://www.ai.soc.i.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~mardan/resource/Uyghur_Kazakh_Bilingual_Dictionary_v1.zip
plain word lists for Chinese-Uyghur, Chinese-Kazakh, Uyghur-Kazakh
CC-BY-NC

(A.3) Altaic etymological dictionary
http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/bdescr.cgi?root=config&morpho=0&basename=\data\alt\turcet
includes 26 Turkic languages, available online and as DBase dump
copyright restricted

(A.4) Freelang
http://freelang.net
English (and partially, French) word lists for 28 Turkic languages (mostly
small), proprietary list format
freeware (i.e., no modification)

(A.5) Apertium Turkic
http://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Turkic_languages#Pairs
word lists for Turkic-Azeri, Kazakh-Tatar, 12 more pairs of Turkic
languages under development
open source (hosted at Sourceforge)

(A.6) RELISH
http://tla.mpi.nl/relish/
lexicons for Chalkan and Tuva, provided by the RELISH project
available online, XML
licensing to be clarified

(A.7) PanLex
http://panlex.org
huge collection of word lists in a unified representation (SQL, RDF)
incl. Azeri, Gagauz, Kazakh, Kirgiz, Turkish, Turkmen, Uzbek, etc.
different (mostly open) licenses depending on the original source

(A.8) Intercontinental Dictionary Series
http://lingweb.eva.mpg.de/ids/, http://datahub.io/de/dataset/ids
word lists of minimal core vocabulary
Azeri, Kumyk, Nogai, Terekeme (Azerbaijan dialect)
plain text or RDF
CC-BY-NC-ND


(B) Human-readable dictionaries/wordlists that can be easily converted
into machine-readable formats

(B.1) Wiktionary, various languages (see A.1)
http://wiktionary.org
incl. Azeri, Kazakh, Kirgiz, Tatar, Turkish, Turkmen
CC-BY-SA

(B.2) Chalkan dictionary
http://sprachen.sprachsignale.de/tschalkanisch/tschalkanisch.html
German
available for academic use, with attribution, non-commercial

(B.3) Shorica
http://shoriya.ngpi.rdtc.ru/
Shor dictionary and corpus
copyright to be clarified, currently offline (last accessed mid-May 2014)

(B.4) Karachay-Balkar dictionary
http://www.elbrusoid.org/dictionary/
Karachay-Balkar - Russian dictionary
copyright restricted

(B.5) Tatar dictionary
http://tatar.com.ru/dict/dict.php
Tatar-Russian dictionary
copyright restricted

(B.6) Khakassian dictionary
http://khakas.altaica.ru/dictionary/
Khakas - English and Khakas - Russian
copyright restricted



(C) other resources

(C.1) Altaica
http://altaica.narod.ru/e_v-turks.htm
link and resource collection, includes machine-readable and human-readable
dictionaries for 17 Turkic languages (not replicated above)

(C.2) Pre-Islamic Old Turkic Texts (VATEC)
http://vatec2.fkidg1.uni-frankfurt.de/
glossed corpus (XML) from which a German-Old Turkic word list can be
compiled
copyright restricted

(C.3) Glosbe
http://glosbe.com
online access to word lists and translation memories
Azeri, Karachay-Balkar, Kazakh, Tatar, Turkish, Turkmen, Uzbek, etc.
free online API (with severe capacity limits)


Certainly, this list is not exhaustive, so if you feel something important
is missing or incorrect, please let me know ;)

All the best,
Christian

</pre>

[http://ekitap.kulturturizm.gov.tr/TR,78479/turkiye-disindaki-turk-edebiyatlari-antolojisi.html Turkic-Turkish texts].

Latest revision as of 23:52, 20 June 2016

Classification[edit]

  • attributive attr = things that act like adjectives
  • predicative pred
  • substantive subst = things that act like nouns
  • adverbial advl = things that act like adverbs (??)

Hierarchy[edit]

  • noun (default 'subst') + DECL-NOUN
    noun->adj = n.attr + DECL-ADJ !! No <comp>arison levels though
  • adj (default 'attr') + DECL-ADJ
    adj->noun = adj.subst + DECL-NOUN
  • num (default 'attr') + DECL-NUM
    num->noun = num.subst + DECL-NOUN
  • prn (default 'subst') + DECL-NOUN
  • det (default 'attr') + NO-DECL
  • v
    v->noun = v.ger + DECL-NOUN
    v->adj = v.glp + DECL-ADJ
    v->adv = v.prc + DECL-ADV

Types of non-finite verbal forms:

  • Adverbial participle: <gnL> (e.g. <gnc> "Conditional adverbial participle")
  • Verbal adjectives: <gpL> (e.g. <gpi> "Imperfect verbal adjective")
  • Gerunds: <gerN> (e.g. <ger1> "Past/present gerund")
  • Participles: <prcN> (e.g. <prc1> "Realis participle")

What about 'cop' and 'pred'[edit]

  • The copula is i- (p.79)
    • -(y) (pres)
    • -(y)DI (past)
    • -(y)mIş (evid)
    • -(y)sA (cond)

Заметки разрешении морфологической неоднозначности[edit]

Arguments against just having a different tag: 

 e.g. güzel<n>/güzel<adj>
  • We lose the tag denoting the principle function of the stem
  • We can't tell the CG to choose the principal function
  • We can't tell the difference between `real' N/A ambiguity and "derivation" ambiguity

Arguments against just piling one tag ontop of another: 

 e.g. güzel<adj>/güzel<adj><n>
  • Having two POS in a word makes things confusing
  • Having two POS tags in a word makes it difficult to write CG rules

Arguments against having a "zero derivation": 

 e.g. güzel<adj>/güzel<adj><D_n><n>
  • It's ugly and stupid
  • Having two POS tags in a word makes it difficult to write CG rules

Прилагательное[edit]

güzel            'beautiful'          güzel<adj>/güzel<adj><subst>/güzel<adj><advl>
güzelim          'my beauty'          güzel<adj><subst><px1sg>
güzel konuştu    'she spoke well'     güzel<adj>/güzel<adj><subst>/güzel<adj><advl>
güzel bir köpek  'a beautiful dog'    güzel<adj>/güzel<adj><subst>/güzel<adj><advl>

küçük            'small'              küçük<adj>/küçük<adj><subst>/küçük<adj><advl>
küçük kızlar     'little girls'       küçük<adj>/küçük<adj><subst>/küçük<adj><advl>
küçükler         'little one(s)'      küçük<adj><subst><pl>/küçük<n>+i<cop><pres><p3><pl>

kötü             'bad'                kötü<adj>/kötü<adj><subst>/kötü<adj><advl>
kötü araba       '(a) bad car'        kötü<adj>/kötü<adj><subst>/kötü<adj><advl>
kötü yüzmek      'to swim badly'      kötü<adj>/kötü<adj><subst>/kötü<adj><advl>

Наречии[edit]

şimde            'now'                şimde<adv>
şimdelerde       'nowadays'           şimdelerde<adv>
I think you want both of these as <adv>. Historically it's something like "şu emdi<n??>" and "şu emdilerde/emdi<n??><pl><loc>", but for our purposes this is irrelevant. —Firespeaker 19:40, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
More to the point, this isn't any sort of productive process we're seeing here; my point is that it's an isolated productive-looking form because of its unique history. —Firespeaker 19:41, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Имема существительные[edit]

evdeki          'the one in the house'     ev<n><locattr>/ev<n><locsub>
evdekinde       'in the one in the house'  ev<n><locsub><loc>

Разное[edit]

$ echo Evlerimizdeymişler | hfst-proc tr-cv.automorf.hfst 
^Evlerimizdeymişler/Ev<n><pl><px1pl><loc>+i<cop><evid><p3><pl>$


Compound tenses[edit]

Things to think about:

  • analysis length:
    • ^келген эмеспи/кел<v><iv><neg><past><p3><pl>+бы<qst>/кел<v><iv><neg><past><p3><sg>+бы<qst>/кел<vaux><neg><past><p3><pl>+бы<qst>/кел<vaux><neg><past><p3><sg>+бы<qst>$, vs.
    • ^келген/кел<v><iv><past>/кел<vaux><past>$ ^эмеспи/эмес<neg><p3><sg>+бы<qst>/эмес<neg><p3><pl>+бы<qst>$
  • tag/morpheme reordering should be done by transfer, such as Turkish->Chuvash negative imperative, Chuvash->Turkish possessives.
  • what about different spacing, do you ever get >1 space, or nbsp or formatting between e.g. келген and эмеспи ? -- or anything that isn't a single ascii space ?

Resources[edit]

Following is a mail to the Corpora list. Might be a good idea to have a 'Resources' page/section for Turkic languages, as it is done on language pages. 

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 19:54:04 +0200
From: "Christian Chiarcos" <christian.chiarcos@web.de>
Subject: Re: [Corpora-List] Turkic dictionaries
To: "corpora@uib.no" <corpora@uib.no>

Dear all,

I would like to thank everyone who responded to my request and who helped
me in personal conversation, in particular, Emily Bender, Jost Gippert,
Max Ionov, Irina Nevskaya, Monika Rind-Pawlowski, Vit Suchomel, Francis
Tyers, and Mardan Wushouer. Please find a summary, with URLs, brief
description and licensing information below (no particular order):


(A) Dictionaries/Wordlists in machine-readable formats

(A.1) Gilles Sérasset's DBnary
http://kaiko.getalp.org/about-dbnary/
machine-readable (RDF) dictionaries generated from Wiktionary, incl.
Turkish
CC-BY-SA

(A.2) Mardan Wushouer's wordlists
http://www.ai.soc.i.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~mardan/resource/Chinese_Uyghur_Bilingual_Dictionary_v1.zip
http://www.ai.soc.i.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~mardan/resource/Chinese_Kazakh_Bilingual_Dictionary_v1.zip
http://www.ai.soc.i.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~mardan/resource/Uyghur_Kazakh_Bilingual_Dictionary_v1.zip
plain word lists for Chinese-Uyghur, Chinese-Kazakh, Uyghur-Kazakh
CC-BY-NC

(A.3) Altaic etymological dictionary
http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/bdescr.cgi?root=config&morpho=0&basename=\data\alt\turcet
includes 26 Turkic languages, available online and as DBase dump
copyright restricted

(A.4) Freelang
http://freelang.net
English (and partially, French) word lists for 28 Turkic languages (mostly
small), proprietary list format
freeware (i.e., no modification)

(A.5) Apertium Turkic
http://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Turkic_languages#Pairs
word lists for Turkic-Azeri, Kazakh-Tatar, 12 more pairs of Turkic
languages under development
open source (hosted at Sourceforge)

(A.6) RELISH
http://tla.mpi.nl/relish/
lexicons for Chalkan and Tuva, provided by the RELISH project
available online, XML
licensing to be clarified

(A.7) PanLex
http://panlex.org
huge collection of word lists in a unified representation (SQL, RDF)
incl. Azeri, Gagauz, Kazakh, Kirgiz, Turkish, Turkmen, Uzbek, etc.
different (mostly open) licenses depending on the original source

(A.8) Intercontinental Dictionary Series
http://lingweb.eva.mpg.de/ids/, http://datahub.io/de/dataset/ids
word lists of minimal core vocabulary
Azeri, Kumyk, Nogai, Terekeme (Azerbaijan dialect)
plain text or RDF
CC-BY-NC-ND


(B) Human-readable dictionaries/wordlists that can be easily converted
into machine-readable formats

(B.1) Wiktionary, various languages (see A.1)
http://wiktionary.org
incl. Azeri, Kazakh, Kirgiz, Tatar, Turkish, Turkmen
CC-BY-SA

(B.2) Chalkan dictionary
http://sprachen.sprachsignale.de/tschalkanisch/tschalkanisch.html
German
available for academic use, with attribution, non-commercial

(B.3) Shorica
http://shoriya.ngpi.rdtc.ru/
Shor dictionary and corpus
copyright to be clarified, currently offline (last accessed mid-May 2014)

(B.4) Karachay-Balkar dictionary
http://www.elbrusoid.org/dictionary/
Karachay-Balkar - Russian dictionary
copyright restricted

(B.5) Tatar dictionary
http://tatar.com.ru/dict/dict.php
Tatar-Russian dictionary
copyright restricted

(B.6) Khakassian dictionary
http://khakas.altaica.ru/dictionary/
Khakas - English and Khakas - Russian
copyright restricted



(C) other resources

(C.1) Altaica
http://altaica.narod.ru/e_v-turks.htm
link and resource collection, includes machine-readable and human-readable
dictionaries for 17 Turkic languages (not replicated above)

(C.2) Pre-Islamic Old Turkic Texts (VATEC)
http://vatec2.fkidg1.uni-frankfurt.de/
glossed corpus (XML) from which a German-Old Turkic word list can be
compiled
copyright restricted

(C.3) Glosbe
http://glosbe.com
online access to word lists and translation memories
Azeri, Karachay-Balkar, Kazakh, Tatar, Turkish, Turkmen, Uzbek, etc.
free online API (with severe capacity limits)


Certainly, this list is not exhaustive, so if you feel something important
is missing or incorrect, please let me know ;)

All the best,
Christian

Turkic-Turkish texts.

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