Talk:Welsh to English/Archive 1 - Revision history

Francis Tyers: /* (1.3.32) Subordinate "bod + pr" should not apply to inflected forms */

2008-07-29T14:35:39Z

(1.3.32) Subordinate "bod + pr" should not apply to inflected forms

Francis Tyers: /* (1.3.18) "i gyd" */

2008-07-24T13:39:54Z

(1.3.18) "i gyd"

Francis Tyers: /* (1.3.36) Preverbal particles - affirmative */

2008-07-24T13:22:02Z

(1.3.36) Preverbal particles - affirmative

Francis Tyers: /* (1.3.32) Subordinate "bod + pr" should not apply to inflected forms */

2008-07-24T12:37:36Z

(1.3.32) Subordinate "bod + pr" should not apply to inflected forms

Francis Tyers: /* (1.3.32) Subordinate "bod + pr" should not apply to inflected forms */

2008-07-17T09:35:06Z

(1.3.32) Subordinate "bod + pr" should not apply to inflected forms

Francis Tyers: /* (1.3.18) "i gyd" */

2008-07-17T07:58:00Z

(1.3.18) "i gyd"

Francis Tyers: /* (1.3.9) Inflected verbs not being parsed */

2008-07-17T07:54:28Z

(1.3.9) Inflected verbs not being parsed

Francis Tyers: /* =(1.3.39) Periphrastic tenses with "bod" */

2008-07-17T07:52:14Z

=(1.3.39) Periphrastic tenses with "bod"

Francis Tyers: /* (1.3.38) Fragility of "bod + noun" (1.3.15) */

2008-07-17T07:45:50Z

(1.3.38) Fragility of "bod + noun" (1.3.15)

Francis Tyers: /* (1.3.32) Subordinate "bod + pr" should not apply to inflected forms */

2008-07-17T07:45:19Z

(1.3.32) Subordinate "bod + pr" should not apply to inflected forms

@@ Line 427: / Line 427: @@
 ; ei fod o wedi dod -> that he has come
 ; ei fod o am adael -> that he will leave
+==(1.3.33) Elided pr.poss after a vowel==
+; neidiodd Cwchwlin ar ei draed a'i wyneb yn fwgwd o waed, ac â'i gleddyf torrodd bob un o'r pennau sgrechlyd aflafar oddiar eu hysgwyddau
+; -> *Jumped *Cwchwlin on his #feet<n><sg> and his face in mask of blood, and with'to *gleddyf broke each one of the heads *sgrechlyd *aflafar *oddi on their *hysgwyddau
+; Cwchwlin jumped to his feet, his face a mask of blood, and with his sword cut each one of the shrieking, harsh heads from their shoulders. (Cwchwlin p110.  Apologies to those of a nervous disposition!)
+The key point here is "â'i" (we'll use a noun that is actually in the dix)
+; *â ei car -> *with his car
+; â ei gar -> with his car - with his car
+; â ei char -> *with his car - with her car
+; *â'i car -> With his car
+; â'i gar -> With his car - with his car
+; â'i char -> *With his car - with her car
+Elided versions of the pr.poss are not being picked up, and no attention is being paid to the mutation of the following noun even with the non-elided pr.poss.
+I'm not sure whether the elided (sometimes called infixed) pr.poss, which occur after vowels, should be entered separately in the dix, or handled with rules.
+{{comment|At the moment I'm handling them in the dictionary, making ad-hoc additions to the "postblank" section (right at the bottom of the file) as I go along. - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]}}
+; 1p.sing - 'm
+fy mrawd a'm chwaer (my brother and sister) - see below
+; 2p.sing - 'th + SM
+gyda'th dad (with your dad) - see below
+; 3p.sing.m - 'w + SM after "i", 'i + SM elsewhere
+i'w dŷ (to his house), ei fam a'i dad (his mother and father), gyda'i arian (with his money)
+; 3p.sing.f - 'w + {AM, h before a vowel} after "i", 'i + {AM, h before a vowel} elsewhere
+i'w thŷ (to her house), ei mam a'i thad (her mother and father), gyda'i harian (with her money)
+; 1p.pl - 'n + h before a vowel
+o'n gwlad (from our country)
+; 2p.pl - 'ch
+cario'ch pethau (to carry your things)
+; 3p.pl -  'w after "i", 'u + h before a vowel elsewhere
+i'w tŷ (to their house), ei fam a'i dad (his mother and father), gyda'u harian (with their money)
+Note that this will deal with "ar eu hysgwyddau -> on their *hysgwyddau" in the sentence above.  This works fine at present if we drop the h-mutation: "ar eu ysgwyddau -> on their shoulders".
+Although these elided forms can be used after verbs etc, they are most likely after prepositions.  All except 1p.sing and 2p.sing are used after any vowel, but these two ('m, 'th) can only be used after:
+* a (and)
+* â (with)
+* gyda (with)
+* efo (with)
+* tua (towards)
+* na (than, nor)
+* i (to)
+* o (from)
+There are also forms that are used when the pronoun is a direct object.  In most cases, these are the same as the above, but in 3p we have 's instead of 'w.  There are also slight mutation changes.  These forms are typical of old-fashioned written Welsh, so perhaps we could ignore them for now.
+As regards rules:
+ For Welsh pattern "vowel_!i + 'i + {SM_noun, SM_infin}"
+ output "his {noun, infin}"
+ For Welsh pattern "vowel_i + 'w + {SM_noun, SM_infin}"
+ output "his {noun, infin}"
+ For Welsh pattern "vowel_!i + 'i + {AMH_noun, AMH_infin}"
+ output "her {noun, infin}"
+ For Welsh pattern "vowel_i + 'w + {AMH_noun, AMH_infin}"
+ output "her {noun, infin}"
+ For Welsh pattern "vowel_!i + 'u + {AMH_noun, AMH_infin}"
+ output "their {noun, infin}"
+ For Welsh pattern "vowel_i + 'w + {AMH_noun, AMH_infin}"
+ output "their {noun, infin}"
+ For Welsh pattern "vowel + 'ch + {noun, infin}"
+ output "your {noun, infin}"
+ For Welsh pattern "vowel + 'n + {noun, infin}"
+ output "our {noun, infin}"
+This will clash with cases where "yn" becomes "'n" - you can implement it, or leave it for now.
+ For Welsh pattern "{a, â, gyda, efo, tua, na, i, o} + 'm + {noun, infin}"
+ output "my {noun, infin}"
+ For Welsh pattern "{a, â, gyda, efo, tua, na, i, o} + 'm + {SM_noun, SM_infin}"
+ output "your {noun, infin}"
+Other issues:
+"oddi ar" (from on - the opposite of "ar", using the ar paradigm) is not in the dix, although "oddi wrth" (from - the opposite of "at", using the wrth paradigm) is.
+I'm not sure why "ar ei draed" (onto his feet) stumbles (if you'll pardon the pun).
+{{comment|We didn't have "feet" in the English dictionary, only foot sg/pl. I made an entry in the bidix that maps 'traed' → foot(pl), and now it seems to work. - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]}}
 ==(1.3.35) Preverbal particles - interrogative==

@@ Line 194: / Line 194: @@
 :::; roedd y cwningod i gyd yn ddiogel -> *the all rabbits were safe
 :::Just need to massage that slightly. - [[User:Donnek|Donnek]]}}
+==(1.3.22) Dictionary errors (refs to cy-en.dix and cy.dix)==
+"hefyd" (152) is correctly listed as "also", but is wrongly coming up as "then".
+{{comment|::Should be fixed - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]}}
+"da" (5318), is correctly listed as "good", but is coming up as unknown.
+{{comment|::Where is it coming up as unknown? - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]}}
+{{comment|:::In :"mae'r bachgen yn licio'r eneth sy'n dda".  But that is now coming up OK as well. - [[User:Donnek|Donnek]]}}
+<pre>
+    <pardef n="anghydwel/d__vblex">
+    <e lm="anghydweld"><i>anghydwel</i><par n="anghydwel/d__vblex"/></e>
+    <e lm="cyfweld"><par n="initial-c"/><i>yfwel</i><par n="anghydwel/d__vblex"/></e>
+    <e lm="gweld"><par n="initial-g"/><i>wel</i><par n="anghydwel/d__vblex"/></e>
+    <e lm="rhagweld"><par n="initial-rh"/><i>agwel</i><par n="anghydwel/d__vblex"/></e>
+    <e lm="ymweld"><i>ymwel</i><par n="anghydwel/d__vblex"/></e>
+</pre>
+This paradigm appears to be broken in that some of the <r> sides are of different lengths (they should all be 'd' if /d and 'eld' if /eld) - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]
+{{comment|::I'm missing something, sorry.  To me they are all segmented /d. - [[User:Donnek|Donnek]]
+}}
+{{comment|
+:::See for example the entries in the paradigm [http://www.nopaste.com/p/as3si2tMT here]. - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]}}
 ==(1.3.23) "sydd" / "sy"==

@@ Line 398: / Line 398: @@
 ; ei fod o wedi dod -> that he has come
 ; ei fod o am adael -> that he will leave
+==(1.3.35) Preverbal particles - interrogative==
+ For Welsh pattern "a + SM_verb.inflected + subject"
+ output English "auxiliary + subject + verb"
+Again, I assume that Apertium can deal with the technicalities of producing the proper English verbform (he went - did he go?; they see - do they see?; etc).
+Note that "a" is often omitted, especially in spoken Welsh, but the soft mutation remains:
+; a gyrhaeddodd y llythyr? -> *And the letter arrived? - Did the letter arrive?
+; gyrhaeddodd y llythyr? -> *The letter arrived? - Did the letter arrive?
+Introducing subordinate clauses, "a" means "if, whether":
+ For Welsh pattern "!noun + a + SM_verb.inflected + subject"
+ output English "!noun + if + subject + verb"
+; ewch i ofyn a fyddai hi'n dod - *Go I ask and she would be coming - go and ask if she will be coming
+Note that we still have the frustrating issue of the tagger choosing the wrong "i" (see: http://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Welsh_to_English#.22i.22_as_preposition).
+{{comment|::Ok, after a morning of furious hacking, I've fixed the problem in the constraint grammar parser I was using with Apertium. Now this should be selected properly. You can see the file [http://apertium.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/apertium/trunk/apertium-cy-en/apertium-cy-en.cy-en.rlx here]... you might find it interesting, not least because it doesn't require messing about with any XML! :) If you fancy writing rules in that formalism (to improve tagger performance), I can include them directly. I've sent you an email with an example CG for faroese that you might find interesting. - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]}}
+{{comment|:::That's good news.  I'll do a bit of reading on CG, which looks promising, since it is largely bracketless! - [[User:Donnek|Donnek]]}}
+"oni" (with mixed mutation) is used when a positive answer is expected:
+ For Welsh pattern "oni+ MM_verb.inflected + subject"
+ output English "auxiliary + not + subject + verb"
+; oni phrynodd yr athro'r papur? -> **oni The teacher bought the paper? - didn't the teacher buy the paper?
+"oni" becomes "onid" before a vowel, but not before a vowel "exposed" by the soft mutation of a "g":
+; onid aeth y bws heibio'r ysgol? -> **onid The bus went #past<pr>the school? - didn't the bus go past the school?
+; oni welsoch chi? -> **oni Dog saw? - didn't you see?
+LOL!  Subject pronouns really need to be slapped into shape!  That is a very existentialist translation, especially if you add "b" at the beginning.
+{{comment|This seems to be largely done. - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]}}
 ==(1.3.36) Preverbal particles - affirmative==

@@ Line 398: / Line 398: @@
 ; ei fod o wedi dod -> that he has come
 ; ei fod o am adael -> that he will leave
+==(1.3.36) Preverbal particles - affirmative==
+ For Welsh pattern "{fe, mi} + SM_verb.inflected + subject"
+ output English "subject + verb"
+"fe " is mainly southern, and "mi" is mainly northern.  "fe" is the form usually used before impersonals (fe werthwyd y fferm -> *He the farm sold - the farm was sold).
+There is another affirmative particle "y[r]" used before "bod":
+; yr ydych yn mynd -> *The are going - you are going
+but that is only seen now in older written Welsh.  The elided forms (eg "rydych") are already included in the "bod" paradigm, but to handle older Welsh, where "yr" is not elided, you could also have a rule:
+ For Welsh pattern "y[r] + VBSER.inflected + subject"
+ output English "subject + VBSER"
+Incidentally, we get some oddities for variants of the fragment above, all of which mean "you are going":
+; yr ydych yn mynd -> *The are going
+There is no attempt to mark the verb as 2p.pl.
+; yr ydych chi yn mynd -> *The dog are going
+That dog is back again!  "chi" meaning "dog" would never occur in this location, because there is nothing that could give it AM.
+{{comment|
+::I think it's [http://www.sanfalibero.it/imm/Muttley2.jpg this one]...
+:::I made a rule: REMOVE N IF (-1 V) (0 N) (0 PrnSubj) (1 Pr);
+::It fixes that problem, but maybe it will cause others...
+::- [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]}}
+{{comment|:::LOL - catch the pigeon!  If I interpret that rule correctly, it says "if a cohort contains a noun and a pr.subj, with a verb on the immediate left and a preposition on the immediate right, delete the noun"?  (I see you've added quite a few rules since yesterday.)  I think this should work OK, actually, but what I'm slightly nervous about is that we seem to be ignoring relevant data in the stream itself, namely (a) a 2p.pl verb is likely to be followed by a 2p.pl pr, and (b) an AM noun would only occur in an AM context, of which this is not one.  Capturing (a) especially seems important - I know the constraint grammar (ch 11) did mention weighting choices by probability.  I need to be more familiar with the CG syntax, and the Faroese file takes a lot of concentration!  Talking of which, could you maybe do a comment below each of your Welsh rules as you do them, giving a Welsh example of what the rule acts on?  This would make it easier to review them later. - [[User:Donnek|Donnek]]}}
+{{comment|::::Yep, at the moment I'm just writing them as hacks. Hoping that as I add rules they'll become more clear and I'll be able to unify some. The probability stuff is for accepting prob info from an HMM tagger before (not generating it itself)... And, I'll go through and document the rules later this evening. Also, I can pass you a CG for Norwegian which uses more basic rules (but more). - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]}}
+; yr ydych chi'n mynd -> *The you are going
+This is the closest translation.
+; rydych chi yn mynd -> *Dog rust going
+I think that's the name of a 70s album by Genesis ....
+{{comment|::LOL!! :DD - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]}}
+; rydych chi'n mynd -> *You rust going
+I may do, but that is none of Apertium's business ....
+The above two are because cg-proc thinks "rydych" is a form of "rhydu (to rust)" instead of "bod".
+{{comment|::This isn't cg-proc, its the apertium-tagger. Is there a rule I can try for disambiguating vblex.pres from vblex.prs? E.g. could the construction vblex.prs + prpers + yn + vblex.inf ever occur? - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]}}
+{{comment|:::Although it could in theory,  in practice it would be extremely unlikely.  The subjunctive is more or less moribund now, except in stock phrases such as "doed a ddelo" (come what may), and in older written (and perhaps spoken) usage.  The most common remnant is, unsurprisingly, for "bod", in the person of "bo" (3p.sing) (although other persons appear occasionally), and even then it could be argued that these are stock phrases, eg "pan fo angen" (as needed).  I think that in the meantime, therefore, your rule would be OK.  I also wonder about going farther, and automatically deleting vblex.prs from a cohort?  This would not do in the longer run, but would cause few problems for 0.1.  Phrases containing "bo" could be added to the multiword phrase section. - [[User:Donnek|Donnek]]}}
+The conclusion seems to be (apart from the "rhydu" problem) that the absence or non-elision of pr.subj can cause problems.
+{{comment|This section now seems to be dealt with. - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]}}
 ==(1.3.37) infin + object pronoun==

@@ Line 398: / Line 398: @@
 ; ei fod o wedi dod -> that he has come
 ; ei fod o am adael -> that he will leave
+==(1.3.37) infin + object pronoun==
+; canodd cloch y drws amser cinio ac aeth dy fam i'w ateb a chlywaist ti llais Paul yn dweud nad oeddet ti ddim yn yr ysgol
+; -> *The bell of the door sang dinner #time<n><sg> and your mother went to its answer and you heard voice *Paul saying *nad you were not in the school
+; The doorbell rang at dinner-time and your mother went to answer it and you heard Paul's voice saying that you were not in school.
+("Pan Oeddwn Fachgen", Mihangel Morgan, p71)
+; yn ei adael am ddyn arall -> *In its leave for an other man - leaving him for another man
+(from 1.3.27 above)
+"i'w ateb" is literally "its answering", "yn ei adael" is literally "in (the state of) his leaving".  The Welsh (indeed, Celtic) construction is to use a possessive pronoun with an infinitive instead of an object pronoun.  This is often the "sandwich" possessive, where the pr.subj follows the infinitive - " i'w ateb fo, yn ei adael fo", but the pr.subj is frequently omitted, as the above examples indicate.  In some cases, speakers omit the possessive and keep the pr.subj, so we get something similar to English - "i ateb fo, yn gadael fo" - but we probably don't need to cater for that at the moment.
+ For Welsh pattern "pr.poss + verb.infin + [pr.subj]"
+ output English "verb + pr.obj"
+{{comment|::Done,
+:::The bell of the door sang dinner time and your mother went to answer it and you heard the voice of Paul saying *nad you were not in the school
+::"bell of the door" and "voice of Paul" are a bit weird but intelligible, the loss of the preposition "at" is more problematic for understanding. - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]}}
+ For Welsh pattern "yn + pr.poss + verb.infin + [pr.subj]"
+ output English "verb + -ing + pr.obj"
+{{comment|::Done, although there is a problem with ei → him/her/it -- is there a way to ascertain the gender using mutation? (like in the â'i gar example). - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]}}
+ For English pattern "verb.inf + pr.obj"
+ output Welsh "pr.poss + verb.infin + [pr.subj]"
+ For English pattern "verb + -ing + pr.obj"
+ output Welsh "yn + pr.poss + erb.infin + [pr.subj]"
+Possible CG rule to deal with mistagging of "fo" in "i'w ateb fo", etc:
+; REMOVE V IF (0 V) (0 PrnSubj) (-1 VBlexInf)
+I don't think CG applies to the above, because they involve resequencing instead of tagger choices - let me know if I'm wrong.
+"llais Paul - voice *Paul" works fine if we use a known proper noun: "llais Elin" - the voice of Elin".
 ==(1.3.38) Fragility of "bod + noun" (1.3.15)==

@@ Line 194: / Line 194: @@
 :::; roedd y cwningod i gyd yn ddiogel -> *the all rabbits were safe
 :::Just need to massage that slightly. - [[User:Donnek|Donnek]]}}
+==(1.3.23) "sydd" / "sy"==
+This is a relative present form of "bod" - "who/which is/are".  The elided form "sy" is more common in speech.  "sydd" is not listed in the dictionary, but "sy" is.
+; mae'r dyn yn adeiladu gwesty sy'n darparu llawer o ystafelloedd -> *the man is building hotel is provide many of rooms
+; mae'r blaid yn gwneud rhywbeth sy'n cyfrannu at ennill yr etholiad -> *the party is doing something is contribute towards win the election - ... which contributes towards winning the election
+; mae'r dafad yn pori yn y maes sy'n cynnig bwyd da -> *the sheep is grazing in the field is offer good food - ... which offers good food
+(Note: there are some frustrating shortcomings in the output.  If we use a variant of the last sentence:
+; mae'r defaid yn pori yn y cae sy'n cynnig bwyd da -> *the sheep #be<vbser><pres><p3><pl> grazing in the closes is offer good food
+it appears that the conversion can't handle the plural of "sheep", and tagger insists on choosing an inflected verb ("closes", from "cau") instead of the noun (cae - field) - 1.3.5 really needs to be implemented.)
+ For Welsh pattern "{sydd yn, sy'n} + verb_infin"
+ output English "that + verb.pres.3p.sing"
+{{comment|::This should also broadly be fixed. Can you check the output below:
+:::mae'r dyn yn adeiladu gwesty sy'n darparu llawer o ystafelloedd → the man is building hotel that provides a lot of rooms
+:::mae'r blaid yn gwneud rhywbeth sy'n cyfrannu at ennill yr etholiad → the party is doing something that contributes towards win the election
+:::mae'r dafad yn pori yn y maes sy'n cynnig bwyd da  → the sheep is grazing in the field that good food offers
+:::mae'r defaid yn pori yn y cae sy'n cynnig bwyd da → the sheep are grazing in the closes that good food offers.
+::- [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]
+}}
+{{comment|
+:::Terrific.  The only thing is that the last two sentences have subject shift, even though "bwyd da" is an object.  Would it be possible to ban subject shift after "sy[dd]"? Also:
+:::: For Welsh pattern "at + vb.infin"
+:::: output English "towards + verb +-ing"
+:::[[User:Donnek|Donnek]]
+}}
+{{comment|:::::Done. There are a few regressions because of the new tagger, but I'm looking into them. - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]}}
 ==(1.3.24) "llawer"==

@@ Line 131: / Line 131: @@
 {{comment|::::Done. - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]}}
+==(1.3.14) Verb + preposition==
+Re "coolness factor" below (woop woop!), we need to cater for verbs such as "ymchwilio" which are followed by a preposition that is different from English, or where there is no preposition in English.
+For example:
+;<s>ymchwilio i - research into, investigate</s>
+;<s>siarad am - talk about</s>
+;<s>dweud wrth - say to, tell</s>
+;<s>gofyn am - ask for</s>
+Is there any way to get the verb+prep phrase parsed as a phrase, rather than separately?  Perhaps an entry in one of the dictionaries?  This would only need to be done for those phrases where the preposition differs in English and Welsh.
+Not, for instance for:
+;neidio dros - jump over
+;cerdded i - walk to
+;delio gyda - deal with
+where there is a regular correlation between the meanings of the Welsh and English prepositions.
+{{comment|
+:: Yes, these are multiword constructions, like for example "He became accustomed to the taste." → "cynefinodd Fe i y blas." (try it in the testing interface). Is there a way of getting a list of these? (actually there are many I currently need to fix in the bidix/English dict, but if you have a list I can look at them. At the moment we only seem to have multiword verbs on the English side. - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]
+}}
+{{comment|:::I will try to compile a list of the most common, and send it to you tomorrow. - [[User:Donnek|Donnek]]}}
 ==(1.3.17) Infinitive after "yn lle"==

@@ Line 387: / Line 387: @@
 }}
-===(1.3.39) Periphrastic tenses with "bod"==
+==(1.3.39) Periphrastic tenses with "bod"==
 Re comments in 1.3.32 above:

@@ Line 386: / Line 386: @@
 ::- [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]
 }}
+===(1.3.39) Periphrastic tenses with "bod"==
+Re comments in 1.3.32 above:
+ For Welsh pattern "VBSER.pres + subject + [qualifiers] + yn + verb.infin"
+ output English "subject  + [qualifiers] + is/are + verb + -ing"
+; mae'r bachgen yn mynd -> The boy is going
+Fine - the equivalent of 1.3.8 above, and it seems to be catered for already.
+ For Welsh pattern "VBSER.pii + subject + [qualifiers] + yn + verb.infin"
+ output English "subject  + [qualifiers] + was/were + verb + -ing"
+; roedd y bachgen yn mynd -> The boy was going
+Fine again.
+ For Welsh pattern "VBSER.pres + subject + [qualifiers] + wedi + verb.infin"
+ output English "subject  + [qualifiers] + has/have + verb.pp"
+; mae'r bachgen wedi mynd -> *The boy is after go - the boy has gone
+{{comment|::Done. - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]}}
+ For Welsh pattern "VBSER.pii + subject + [qualifiers] + wedi + verb.infin"
+ output English "subject  + [qualifiers] + had + verb.pp"
+; roedd y bachgen wedi mynd -> *The boy was after go - the boy had gone
+{{comment|::Done. - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]}}
+ For Welsh pattern "VBSER.pres + subject + [qualifiers] + am + SM_verb.infin"
+ output English "subject  + [qualifiers] + is going to + verb"
+; mae'r bachgen am fynd -> *The boy is for go - the boy is going to go
+{{comment|::Done. - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]}}
+ For Welsh pattern "VBSER.pii + subject + [qualifiers] + am + SM_verb.infin"
+ output English "subject  + [qualifiers] + was going to + verb.pp"
+; roedd y bachgen am fynd -> *The boy was for go - the boy was going to go
+{{comment|::Done. - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]}}
+There are other forms, but these will do for the moment.
+Note that the last two of these forms are ubiquitous in Irish English: "he's after buying another one", "he was for going yesterday".
+{{comment|::These now all seem to be done. - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]}}

@@ Line 340: / Line 340: @@
 ; ei fod o wedi dod -> that he has come
 ; ei fod o am adael -> that he will leave
+==(1.3.38) Fragility of "bod + noun" (1.3.15)==
+; Un bore yn yr asembli dywedodd y prifathro bod ymwelwyr tramor wedi dod i'r ysgol. -> one Morning in the *asembli the headmaster said that foreign visitors have come to the school.
+This sentence is minimally adjusted from MM p43, and translates pretty well (though I find the odd capitalisation placement distracting - it would be better to have none).
+However, it breaks fairly easily.  The original sentence had "yn" instead of "wedi", and for this we get:
+; *one Morning in the *asembli the headmaster said be foreign visitors coming to the school.
+The 1.3.15 rule needs to be expanded along the same lines as 1.3.26:
+ For Welsh pattern "VBSER.inf + [det.def] + noun + [qualifiers] + yn + verb"
+ output English "that + [det.def] + noun + [qualifiers] + is/are + verb + ing"
+The original sentence also had "ymwelwyr o dramor", and this gives:
+; *one Morning in the *asembli the headmaster said be visitors he foreign after come to the school.
+Possible CG rules:
+; LIST P3MSg = (p3 m sg)
+; SET PrnSubjP3MSg = PrnSubj + P3MSg
+; REMOVE PrnSubP3MSg IF (0 Pr) (0 PrnSubjP) (-1 N | VblexInf) (1 N)
+I'm not sure how to express "or" in the specs, so I'm using the pipe - please adjust as necessary!  "tramor" needs to be added to the dix as a noun - "overseas" - m.
+{{comment|
+::I've added this rule, the keyword for 'or' is 'OR'.
+<pre>
+# ymwelwyr o tramor
+REMOVE PrnSubj IF (0 Pr)
+                  (0 PrnSubjP3Sg)
+                  ((-1 NC) OR (-1 NP) OR (-1 VblexInf))
+                  ((1 NC) OR (1 NP) OR (1 Adj));
+</pre>
+::I also added tramor to the dictionary, and this gives:
+:::one Morning in the *asembli the headmaster said be visitors of overseas coming to the school.
+::I think the problem here is that "SN SP SN" is not detected as SN, and instead processed as three. I'll look into this. Btw, is there a plural for 'asembli' (I had a look around on the internet but couldn't find it.) - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]
+}}
+{{comment|::Now we get:
+:::one Morning in the *asembli the headmaster said that foreign visitors are coming to the school.
+::- [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]]
+}}