PMC proposals/Interpretation of bylaw 11 - Revision history

Unhammer: /* Amend bylaws (option 2) */

2015-02-03T13:40:49Z

Amend bylaws (option 2)

Unhammer: /* Summary */

2015-02-03T13:40:28Z

Summary

Unhammer: /* Summary */

2015-02-03T13:38:52Z

Summary

Francis Tyers: /* Comments */

2015-02-03T10:02:13Z

Comments

Unhammer: /* Comments */

2015-02-02T17:07:59Z

Comments

Unhammer: /* Comments */

2015-02-02T17:05:39Z

Comments

Francis Tyers: /* Comments */

2015-02-02T17:02:40Z

Comments

Tino Didriksen: /* Comments */

2015-02-02T16:49:33Z

Comments

Mlforcada: /* Comments */

2015-02-02T15:04:09Z

Comments

Unhammer: /* Comments */

2015-02-02T13:46:42Z

Comments

@@ Line 64: / Line 64: @@
 ===Amend bylaws (option 2)===
+===Bylaws amended with voting specified (option 3)===
 ===Abstain===

@@ Line 19: / Line 19: @@
 Proposed by: [[User:Jimregan|Jimregan]] ([[User talk:Jimregan|talk]])
 Seconded by:
@@ Line 30: / Line 31: @@
 Option 3 proposed by: [[User:Unhammer|unhammer]] ([[User talk:Unhammer|talk]]) 14:38, 3 February 2015 (CET)
 Seconded by:

@@ Line 20: / Line 20: @@
 Proposed by: [[User:Jimregan|Jimregan]] ([[User talk:Jimregan|talk]])
 Seconded by:
+Considering the discussion in the comments below, here is a third option to vote for, summarised as "Bylaws amended with voting specified":
+) Amend bylaw 11 to say:
+<ol start="11"><li>Committer access is received by contributing code and getting sponsorship by an existing Committer. Upon fulfillment of these conditions, the PMC votes on granting access. As an exception to bylaw 19, a majority vote is not required, only 2 more yes-votes than no-votes.</ol>
+Amend bylaw 19 to say:
+<ol start="19"><li>The Project Management Committee votes on all of its decisions, by affirmative vote by an absolute majority of members of the PMC. The President has the casting vote.</ol>
+Option 3 proposed by: [[User:Unhammer|unhammer]] ([[User talk:Unhammer|talk]]) 14:38, 3 February 2015 (CET)
+Seconded by:
 ==In detail==

@@ Line 43: / Line 43: @@
 *** I agree with Unhammer here, for me a voting system where +1 = yes, -1 = no and we require >= 2 votes sounds good to me. - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]] ([[User talk:Francis Tyers|talk]]) 18:02, 2 February 2015 (CET)
 **** For all Decisions or only commit access? --[[User:Unhammer|unhammer]] ([[User talk:Unhammer|talk]]) 18:07, 2 February 2015 (CET)
+***** Just for commit access. - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]] ([[User talk:Francis Tyers|talk]]) 11:02, 3 February 2015 (CET)
 ** I'd say sponsor by 1 PMC member. Otherwise, what is the difference between sponsoring and giving your +1 vote? The one who initiates the PMC vote is the sponsor. [[User:Tino Didriksen|Tino Didriksen]] ([[User talk:Tino Didriksen|talk]]) 17:49, 2 February 2015 (CET)

@@ Line 42: / Line 42: @@
 *** See above--[[User:Mlforcada|Mlforcada]] ([[User talk:Mlforcada|talk]]) 16:04, 2 February 2015 (CET)
 *** I agree with Unhammer here, for me a voting system where +1 = yes, -1 = no and we require >= 2 votes sounds good to me. - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]] ([[User talk:Francis Tyers|talk]]) 18:02, 2 February 2015 (CET)
+**** For all Decisions or only commit access? --[[User:Unhammer|unhammer]] ([[User talk:Unhammer|talk]]) 18:07, 2 February 2015 (CET)
 ** I'd say sponsor by 1 PMC member. Otherwise, what is the difference between sponsoring and giving your +1 vote? The one who initiates the PMC vote is the sponsor. [[User:Tino Didriksen|Tino Didriksen]] ([[User talk:Tino Didriksen|talk]]) 17:49, 2 February 2015 (CET)

@@ Line 32: / Line 32: @@
 ** So they still have to commit code in order to be allowed to commit code? --[[User:Unhammer|unhammer]] ([[User talk:Unhammer|talk]]) 10:55, 30 January 2015 (CET)
 *** There are ways to contribute without committing. They can send patches, etc. This is the usual procedure at the beginning of GSoC or GCI.--[[User:Mlforcada|Mlforcada]] ([[User talk:Mlforcada|talk]]) 16:04, 2 February 2015 (CET)
+**** Perhaps we could reword it to "… by contributing code and …"? --[[User:Unhammer|unhammer]] ([[User talk:Unhammer|talk]]) 18:05, 2 February 2015 (CET)
 ** How would voting work? If we don't specify, this is even worse. Currently we have a practice of requiring 4 PMC members to say yes; but just saying "vote" could mean anything from "one person is enough" to "everyone has to have voted and nothing happens until everyone has said something" to "everyone has to say yes, a single no means no commit access" etc etc. --[[User:Unhammer|unhammer]] ([[User talk:Unhammer|talk]]) 10:55, 30 January 2015 (CET)
 *** Good point, perhaps one should specify "affirmative vote by an absolute majority of members of the PMC"--[[User:Mlforcada|Mlforcada]] ([[User talk:Mlforcada|talk]]) 16:04, 2 February 2015 (CET)
+**** I think that'd be good to have in 19 (regardless of whether we make an exception for commit access or not). --[[User:Unhammer|unhammer]] ([[User talk:Unhammer|talk]]) 18:05, 2 February 2015 (CET)
 * I think we should change "committer" to PMC member. e.g. they need sponsorship by two PMC members instead of just two committers. - [[User:Francis Tyers|Francis Tyers]] ([[User talk:Francis Tyers|talk]]) 13:30, 2 February 2015 (CET)
 ** Agreed.--[[User:Mlforcada|Mlforcada]] ([[User talk:Mlforcada|talk]]) 16:04, 2 February 2015 (CET)

@@ Line 38: / Line 38: @@
 ** +1, that'd be more in line with current practice, and more explicit. I now see that Mikel wrote to pmc-list Dec.30 2014 that 18e says "The responsibilities of the Project Management Committee include [...] Giving access rights to new Committers" and that this should be interpreted as "a majority PMC vote (4 members) is required in order to grant commit access". To interpret 18e as requiring a majority vote, you also have to include 19 which says "the PMC votes on all its decisions". However, I do not agree that we would have to change 18e in order to require only 2 PMC members to grant commit access. Note that 19 says nothing about how voting works; a voting system where we require 2 yes'es and no no's is still a voting system. In any case, we should be explicit about how this works, otherwise it's hard to tell if any of our decisions are really final. --[[User:Unhammer|unhammer]] ([[User talk:Unhammer|talk]]) 14:46, 2 February 2015 (CET)
 *** See above--[[User:Mlforcada|Mlforcada]] ([[User talk:Mlforcada|talk]]) 16:04, 2 February 2015 (CET)
+** I'd say sponsor by 1 PMC member. Otherwise, what is the difference between sponsoring and giving your +1 vote? The one who initiates the PMC vote is the sponsor. [[User:Tino Didriksen|Tino Didriksen]] ([[User talk:Tino Didriksen|talk]]) 17:49, 2 February 2015 (CET)
 ==Voting==